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DavidR
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Posted: 27 July 2012 at 1:54am | IP Logged Quote DavidR

You say what can be done at the finishing stages, I am more approching the problem from the buying of the raw material point of view, which in India is generally the the responsibility of the brother-in-law of the owner, and the poor suffering technitian is told that he needs to solve a technical  (impossible) problem!  Indian tanners perform miracles!  The fact that the usual matrial there is (dry and old!) wet-blue makes things very difficult for all, even for the goat himself!  Thanks Kane for introducing your usual sannity into this discussion.

Someone like Waldo has a great problem in handling such a situation and by saying I speak only for the USA, is stating I will not get involved in the discussion, but that is part of his gad-fly approach to the wonderful forum which does also make him an expert on flies!  Please do think of the case of heavier skins as well, where the arteries are thicker and do rot because of the nutrients present in blood as well as how complicated it is to wring-out with a press some fluids from the salted hide, and in the dark apply it to what will soon be precious gelatin covered photographic film, to see the difficoulty of positivelly proving the case to Waldo!



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kallenwe
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Posted: 27 July 2012 at 6:46am | IP Logged Quote kallenwe

While there is no logic to suggest that the film test as develop many years ago is accurate for determining "delay in cure", that arguement seems entirely unimportant at this juncture.  I am impressed with your counter points, especially with the given limitations, ie hide source, etc.

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DavidR
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Posted: 10 August 2012 at 1:38pm | IP Logged Quote DavidR

In the October 2012 JALCA there will appear an article
from Turkish investigators that conclude that most
salting process's, even if performed timely, can
contribute dangerous microorganisms in the absence of a
suitable bactericide. Since in many countries, the salt
fed to cattle is the same one as that used for hide-
curing, and disasters could occur if salt for hide curing
were to contain a bactericide, unless it is the kind used
in tooth-paste for humans (!). It is indeed a shame that
proper treatment (outside of US, Canada, Western Europe,
etc.) of raw-material is still as primitive as it is!
Americans do not appreciate the fact that formal
economies can allow for a tannery buyer to pay better to
the producer and handler for a well treated hide!   The
fossilized informal economic systems in many countries
are remnants of systems designed by now-vanquished
oppressive colonial empires that need not exist in self-
governed, democratic, societies! From the Romans, The
Ummayad and Abbasid Caliphates, Spain, Portugal,Ottomans,
Moughuls, The British Empire, the Dutch, the French, and
even the recent Soviet Union, etc., there are inherited
economic in-formalism in more or less fossilized state,
that needs to be sent once and for all to the economic
trash-can of history to make better leather! True
democracy is the friend of tanners as well!

Edited by DavidR on 10 August 2012 at 1:49pm


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DavidR
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Posted: 24 August 2012 at 10:06pm | IP Logged Quote DavidR

Oportune use of salt will delay bacterial damage that often causes grain distress from ruined enamel to Nubouk effect and even holes!  This protection consists in slowing down activity but not stopping it. Given enough time even in a salted state  (1-2years) serious hide damage will ocurr but a few weeks up to one month would probably not carry bad consquences.  The storage temperature is obviously relevant as well.  Salt curing should involve proper bactericide as well, but the fact that often catlle nutrition salt is employed for salting hides, makes the use of a prepared curing salt too dangerous for salt producers, that in many countries might be a government agency!

Vein marks should be regarded as equivalent to "scar-tissue" in the sence that it is not at all reversible through the use of some amazing chemical during processing and just about all one can do is not aiding it to get worse!



Edited by DavidR on 24 August 2012 at 10:12pm


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