Posted: 21 January 2010 at 11:43pm | IP Logged

I produced a piece of leather tanned with Basyntan AS - Aluminium Syntan, and the Ts is 75 C, the boiled cut show that the Syntan was not throughout the cut.

do Anybody have comments on the penetration of Aluminium Syntan?

how can we push them deeply inside?

Posted: 22 January 2010 at 2:43am | IP Logged

Get a physicist to assist you! 

Just kidding, I do not know this product.  In India BASF had a product called Bilutan AL, that was an annalogue to Tannesco H, only with aluminum instead of chrome, with a sulphonic group aromatic syntan.

According to work done by BASF's own Dr. Alfred Zissel, aldehydes in combination with aluminum help reduce the high Cationicity due to aluminum and hence improve such things as penetration of dyestuffs and other anionics.  Note that aldehydes are not charged by themselves,  but because they react with amino side groups of collagen,  R-NH2, such as to block-it chemically, cationic amino side groups cannot form, and if R-NH3+ does not form, the leather is less cationic and in effect aldehyde treatment reduces potential cationicity although the product itself is neutral!  Aluminum is a highly Hofmeister swelling cation as well, and for it's adequate penetration must be applied at a pH below 3 (which I call a minipickel including salt as well!) or else forms large polynuclear  "clusters" with cationic (never ANIONIC such as chrome can do, if excess sulfate is present in acid!) charge that help then flock anionic polyelectrolite acrylic resins used for water purification purposes, very similar to acid acrylic retanning syntans that do also make leather less cationic!  I bet no damn Physicist could tell you this!  Hair-on tanners do know about what I am talking about although they never consult physicists at all.

PS:  For lnformation on the principles describing a chemical's penetration properties through Collagen/Leather please see my article in November's JALCA (commercial message?)!

Posted: 22 January 2010 at 12:49pm | IP Logged

tanning with AL,zirconium to get leather with pure white section and

excellant lightfastness ,more copact ,more fuller.............................

to avoid this problem, ph less than 3

short float than cr

is pentration incomplet should be extend

Posted: 23 January 2010 at 1:37pm | IP Logged

Basyntan AS is a new product and do not have the technical information. Could you post it in order to see what can be done with the product because the only information available here mention that is for corrected grain and suede leather. How was prepared the pelts for AS tanning; what percentage was offered; how long did you run the process?.

Posted: 23 January 2010 at 2:20pm | IP Logged

the technical information for basy, AS

www.basf.com.br/PSMLoad.dll?id=4895&usage=501 

Posted: 23 January 2010 at 2:41pm | IP Logged

I think that we have to wait for LeO-1 to see which Al-Syntan is, maybe is this other one.

http://www.divinechem.com/pdf/Dytan_aluminium_Vegetable_Tann ing_base%20Syntan.pdf 

But that shows you how the me-too products proliferate with the same old ideas. To get to pH=3 in order to lower astringency, we have to go to more NaCl and H2SO4, don't you think?

So when are we going to star saving the planet

We are going to need something  more than physicits to do that

Regards

Zercas

Posted: 23 January 2010 at 6:03pm | IP Logged

Thanks zaghlolman for the link. The technical information does not recommend Basyntan AS as a single tanning agent. It is recommended for wet-white production and this is not a whole tanned article: It is just a pretanning. Maybe it would better to try with Basyntan UR or DLE or DLX. For a white leather it will need an offer around 30% over pelt weight.