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DavidR Senior Member

Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: United States
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
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I have never had discourteous treatment in China! I understand the difficulties for Chinese to use English and I am amazed by how hard they try to communicate well. If Leo thinks he can get a more to the point answer from a physicist, let him go ahead! I am a tanner and I use both Chemistry and Physics in my thinking, although I am primarily an inorganic Chemist by education. There is lots of inorganic chemistry in leather making, even if tanners don't realize it, and chemical firms do hire Organic Chemists primarily!
Edited by DavidR on 19 January 2010 at 9:20pm
__________________ DR
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zercas Senior Member


Joined: 15 August 2005 Location: Mexico
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:35pm | IP Logged
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You are right, things get lost in the translation some times. But your reponse is very gracious and polite. Thank you.
I wanted to aknowledge David, response, because I really though it was one of the best I have seen from him.
Anyhow, I hpoe you found theinformation you were loking for in the Google Search.
Regards
Zercas
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mexgerber Senior Member

Joined: 13 January 2007
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| Posted: 23 January 2010 at 3:35pm | IP Logged
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I do not know studies of hides and leathers from the mechanical point of view as taught in sciences of materials, dealing with tensile and compressive stresses and the alterations of the forms of bodies upon which they act. Maybe the anisotropy of the fibre structure over the skins or hides or the variability over the butt, flanks or shoulder areas of the fibre structure tightness, may it render such studies a bit useless. Maybe the physical separation of the main layers, grain and fibrous layer, does not allow their study as a single body or structure. Perhaps this is why we are mainly focused on the chemical and physical treatments that influence the junction between the papillar and reticular layers, but any research and findings from another perspective should be welcomed.
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zercas Senior Member


Joined: 15 August 2005 Location: Mexico
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1864
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| Posted: 23 January 2010 at 5:12pm | IP Logged
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This is the abstract of the link that I posted in the first page of this discussion, there is much written in that respect, it is just the matter of looking. If you like to see the whole thing is it just the matter to get the paper from 1972. I am sure that in JALCA, JSTLC, and even Das Leder (which you read well Mexgerber) there should be much info.
Regards
Zercas
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j727h62143788216/
A. G. Ward1
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Procter Department of Food and Leather Science, University of Leeds, England |
Received: 27 October 1972
Summary The many uses of leather have largely relied on the range of mechanical properties which it can provide, according to the raw material employed in its manufacture and the manufacturing processes themselves. The contrasting behaviour of a stiff sole leather and of a fine gloving leather exemplify this point. The last twenty years have seen intensive investigation of many mechanical properties of leather and the design of test methods now accepted internationally.
At ambient temperatures and humidities most types of leather show mainly elastic behaviour, although delayed elastic effects may give the semblance of plasticity. The stress relaxation-time relation for constant linear strain shows the stress decaying linearly with log (time). The stress decay becomes discontinuous after sufficient time. The stress-strain relation for extension of leather strips is often markedly non-linear even at low strains (<2%). Two dimensional extension of leather has been analysed using an instrument allowing independent extension in two perpendicular directions. To a first approximation each stress component is linearly related to the two elastic strain components in the perpendicular directions.
As with other materials of biological origin, the mechanical behaviour of leather varies from place to place in the skin, not only over its area, but also through its thickness. The extent of variation is briefly discussed and related to the underlying fibre structure.
Leather which has been strained and then subjected to either heat alone or heat and moisture, shows much more extensive plasticity than occurs at lower temperatures. This behaviour has been used to enable leather to be given appropriate shapes, as in the heat setting of upper leathers. Quantitative studies of heat setting are reported and the influence of such variables as temperature, moisture content of the applied air stream, the air stream velocity and the duration of treatment are discussed. The plastic deformation obtained in this way is contrasted with run in gloving leather.
With 3 figures and 2 tables
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mexgerber Senior Member

Joined: 13 January 2007
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| Posted: 23 January 2010 at 5:55pm | IP Logged
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Dear Sergio, I was referring to studies "from the mechanical point of view as taught in sciences of materials, dealing with tensile and compressive stresses and the alterations of the forms of bodies upon which they act" not to mechanical properties or behavior.
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zercas Senior Member


Joined: 15 August 2005 Location: Mexico
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1864
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| Posted: 23 January 2010 at 7:16pm | IP Logged
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Jorge, I am glad that you are into the new "materials science stuff", I do not know much about the mechanical area of leather , I just found that article from 1974, but if your look into he linl, the first page, it comes from a non leather journal but from Rheologica Acta, it would be nice to get that paper and see what they were thingking about the mechanical forces in leather in 1974, and why it is floating around the net a paper from so far back.
Regards
Zercas
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mexgerber Senior Member

Joined: 13 January 2007
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| Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:52pm | IP Logged
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Yes, the paper looks interesting. How can we get it?.
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zercas Senior Member


Joined: 15 August 2005 Location: Mexico
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| Posted: 24 January 2010 at 1:17pm | IP Logged
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$$$$ 34 USCy 
Regards
Zercas
https://commerce.metapress.com/content/j727h62143788216/reso urce-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=zstl1o454letdcewqn 5wmwzt&sh=www.springerlink.com
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mexgerber Senior Member

Joined: 13 January 2007
Online Status: Offline Posts: 555
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| Posted: 25 January 2010 at 3:40am | IP Logged
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Grapes are not ripe yet.
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